Category Archives: Dave Burin Interviews
The last 17 years have been quite the ride for Northern Irish wing wizard Wayne Carlisle. And the genial, engaging Truro City assistant talks me through a playing career which began at the lofty heights of a packed Selhurst Park and ended with a bittersweet mixture of triumph and early retirement at picturesque Plainmoor. But Wayne’s journey has been about much more than his performances at 3pm on a Saturday.
There have, of course, been back-to-back promotions to the Football League, with Exeter City and Torquay United. A dramatic end-of-season run which somehow preserved Bristol Rovers’ (then) unbroken run of 83 years in the league. And, of course, success as Steve Tully’s right-hand man at Truro City. But Wayne has also been coaching the next generation of players to succeed, whether in the beautiful game or in the world of business. Here is his story.
DB: You joined your first club, Crystal Palace as a teenage trainee. How difficult was it leaving your home in Lisburn, Northern Ireland to join the Eagles? And what are your earliest memories of life at the club?
WC: At 15-years-old, I didn’t find it tough at all. I didn’t look at it in that way, I saw it through a child’s eyes. I was just excited to have the opportunity to play professional football. Looking back on it now I have my own children, and work with children, for someone at that age, moving was a big thing.
I went into digs with another Irish lad named Kieran Loughran, and we lived together for about three years, so having that company made it a lot easier. And I was a young lad, training every day, and it was all I had ever dreamt of doing. It was a brilliant experience.
DB: Your league debut at Palace came against Birmingham City in February 1999, and you became a regular fixture in midfield. What do you remember about your debut? And what was it like playing and training with established stars like Atillio Lombardo and Saša Ćurčić?
WC: On my debut? I just remember the noise. Walking onto the pitch, having never played in front of so many people before, that was memorable. As soon as any game kicks off, you’re into the action and you play automatically from your habits in training.
I think I took training with that calibre of player for granted. I was used to it from an early age and assumed that it was just normal. But in retrospect, it was a really big deal and a privilege to get to work alongside people of that quality.
I definitely tried to learn from them, though. Atillio Lombardo was especially helpful. Obviously, he played the same role [winger] as me, and he would spend time talking me through things – via his interpreter, most of the time! We discussed topics like good positioning, different types of crosses and how to best use them, so he was particularly helpful.
DB: Scoring a first senior goal is a special moment for any player. Yours came in October of that year, in a 4-0 drubbing of Portsmouth. What was that moment like?
WC: That was pretty special. As I remember, the ball was on the edge of the box, and I just worked off instinct and hit it on the half-volley. Luckily enough it found its way into the net. It’s a cliché, but, you can’t describe it. It is the best feeling in the world at that age. Experiencing that was a real buzz.
I didn’t have a celebration planned, though. I wasn’t really that type. Whatever I did to celebrate – I can’t remember exactly – I’m sure it was pretty boring! Not up to the standard you see nowadays!
DB: Palace at that time were a club who went through managers pretty quickly. You played under the likes of Terry Venables, Steve Coppell, Alan Smith and Steve Bruce. Who got the best out of you as a player, and why?
WC: My best time at Palace was under Steve Coppell. He was another winger like me, so he was great in giving me individual support about that role, and was not demanding of me. He understood that I was young and finding my feet, and let me develop at a rate which was right for me, without putting me under any pressure.
Those other managers were more focused on results. Obviously, Steve [Coppell] wanted good results too, but they were more demanding. As a 19-year-old, I maybe wasn’t ready for that kind of pressure. For me personally, Steve [Coppell] was the best man-manager of the bunch.
DB: You joined Division Two side Swindon Town on loan in the following season, and were an important part of helping the side to a respectable mid-table finish. Did you enjoy your time at the County Ground, and were you keen to head out on loan?
WC: I loved my time there, actually. I was getting guaranteed first-team football at Swindon, and we were playing in front of decent crowds at a good standard. As a team, we were having a fairly successful spell, as well. At the end of my loan, I actually tried to extend it, but the Palace manager had changed from Steve Bruce to Trevor Francis. He decided to recall all of Palace’s loan players back, to have a look at them.
Going out on loan was something both I and Palace were keen on. I had been used to first-team football at a young age, and wanted that feeling of training all week and playing on a Saturday. I was desperate to have that again, and the club thought it would be a good idea for me.
DB: In March 2002, you made a permanent switch to Bristol Rovers. In your first full season, the club avoided relegation from the Football League by just 3 points, winning 3 of their last 4 games to survive. What was that nervy run-in like?
WC: That was really tough. We had signed a lot of very good players that season, and for some reason, the team just didn’t click. We had so much quality in the squad, so in the latter part of the season, the players were just looking at each other thinking ‘we really shouldn’t be in this situation’.
We signed Andy Rammell partway through the season, and he was a hugely important addition and scored some crucial goals [including 4 in those final three games]. I pitched in with some goals myself, and we survived. But it wasn’t enjoyable, and certainly not a situation which a club of Bristol Rovers’ stature should have been involved in.
DB: In the following campaign, you notched an impressive 8 goals from midfield, and provided the service that helped striker Giuliano Grazioli reach double figures. Do you think that was one of your best seasons in the game?
WC: I was certainly productive that season, and I did my job well, so it was one of my best years in a personal sense. Rovers’ manager at that time was Ray Graydon – another right winger, funnily enough! So again, he was a manager with a good understanding of what was needed from me, and I fit into his style of play. That obviously made it a lot easier for me to have a successful season.
DB: You joined Martin Ling’s Orient revolution from Rovers, and played in the first half of the Promotion season of 2005-06, before you were sold to Conference Premier club Exeter City. Do you feel proud to have been part of Orient’s success, or were you unhappy at having missed out on that end-of-season glory?
WC: No, I wasn’t unhappy about it. I played my part in Orient’s season, and obviously whilst I would have liked to have been there to celebrate at the end, the move to Exeter was a mutual decision. Exeter were looking for someone in my position, and I had worked with [then City manager] Alex Inglethorpe at Leyton Orient previously.
He said he wanted to take me down there, and as I wasn’t getting guaranteed regular games at Orient at that time, I thought the move would be worthwhile. I wished them all the best, and off I went. And I was just proud of what I achieved in the early days.
I left the O’s on good terms. I actually went back and trained with Martin after breaking my leg, before I rejoined Exeter [in October 2006]. It was actually Paul Tisdale who re-signed me there!
DB: Your time at St. James’ Park was certainly a successful one. The Grecians reached the Playoffs twice and were promoted to the Football League in 2008, thanks largely to your crucial strikes against Torquay United in the Semi-Finals. Did that feel extra special after what happened with Orient?
WC: Yes, to an extent. However, Orient’s promotion was not something I was especially conscious of missing out on because I had still played a part in it. The nature of football is also that players move on.
It was nice to see the journey through with Exeter. Especially so as we had come very close in my first season with the club, losing the final at Wembley [to Morecambe].
DB: What was Paul Tisdale like to play under?
WC: Paul is a fantastic gaffer and an especially good man-manager. He understood the players well as individuals and took the time to get to know us. I had a very good relationship with him.
DB: You repeated the Conference promotion feat the following season with none other than Torquay United, but retired less than a year later, in January 2010. Were injuries, or a new career path the main reason behind retiring at age 30?
WC: It was a combination of both. I had damaged ligaments in my knee, around Christmastime [of 2009]. The medical advice I received was that the injury was going to seriously inhibit my days of playing football, in the near future. At that point, a job had become available, teaching the game in a college. I had taken on board the advice of the specialist who warned that the injury would stop me playing at Conference level, at some point.
The game usually spits people out, and I didn’t want that to happen to me. When the opportunity of this college role came about, I decided to leave on my own terms, and in my own way.
DB: Outside of the game, you are still Director of Football at Ivybridge Community College in Devon, and have had the likes of Paul Scholes running a session, as part of your initiative to improve the school’s football academy. So what are the essential things that you think young players need to know about the game?
WC: They need to understand how the game functions. So they need to realise how invasion games work. Game understanding is a key thing. It is something which the top players possess, and a lot of younger players don’t have. Work ethic is also crucial, as is a passion for actually playing football.
Players also need to take on information and apply what they have learnt in training and matches as well. But what we try to do at the college is not just about developing footballers. We actually look to develop people. They get strong values from us, so that whether they are in football or business, or whatever route they take in the future, those individuals will have the skills to make a positive contribution.
DB: In 2011, you returned to play a handful of games for Truro City, and you must have liked the place, as you came back to Treyew Road three years later as Assistant Manager to Steve Tully. How did the move come about? And what was it about Truro City that made this the right club for you?
WC: When I first took the job, I wasn’t sure it was right for me to be honest! I had seen my pathway after playing as working in youth football. Working with players in that development phase is something I really enjoy.
The Truro City position came up when Steve Tully – who I had played with at Exeter – contacted me. He said the job had come up and asked if I’d be interested. My initial response was ‘not really’!
I didn’t think this role was part of my journey, but Steve convinced me to go along and stand with him on a Saturday. And I had to be honest with him, I enjoyed it! It’s a role I’ve been happy with ever since, and the club has had some real success, which has tied me to it.
Being involved in senior football again has also reignited that competitiveness in me. You kind of lose that when you work in the development phase, because the aim is to develop players in the long-term, and winning a game on a Saturday is not a major focus. You don’t experience those positive short-term results.
Having played football for 12 years professionally, that competitive spirit is always in me somewhere. It doesn’t just disappear. Joining Truro gave me the opportunity to ignite that fire again and gave me that spark that I had probably missed.
DB: You and Steve have proved a formidable team, winning promotion from the Southern Premier Division last season, defeating St. Neots Town in the final. But how do you two differ in your approach, tactically and as man-managers?
WC: We both have our different views on the game, but we’re also pragmatic about our approach. Steve and I both have an idea of how we would like the team to play, but we realise that sometimes our circumstances and the level we’re working at means that can’t always be translated onto the pitch.
But we don’t let ourselves get bogged down by that because the aim is to win games of football. I think part of the reason we’ve been a successful partnership at Truro is a willingness to sacrifice a bit on our ideals of how we think football should ideally be played.
DB: That’s fascinating. So how do you think the way Truro line up differs from how you would play ideally?
WC: We line up to compete with the opposition, first and foremost. Tactically, we set about trying to disrupt their game, and as the match goes on, start to impose how we want to play on them. The pitches at this level dictate what we can do, somewhat. We’d like to ask our players to play the ball out from the back and through midfield, but that isn’t always going to be possible.
Sometimes we have to be more direct than our ideal style would be, and on occasion, we’re required to be a more physical side as well. Those things are dictated by the opposition, the level and the pitches we’re working on.
DB: The success Truro City have experienced with you in the dugout is bound to mean that your stock is high. Is the long-term aim to take on a manager’s job within Non-League, or do you prefer the assistant role and having the work at Ivybridge?
WC: No, that isn’t my aim. Steve [Tully] does all the man-management work, and dealing with the agents – things in that area. I just enjoy being out on the grass with the players, coaching them. I like watching our opposition and coming up with tactical plans. Those are the aspects I’m happy doing, so I don’t think I could see myself going into management.
Then again, I hadn’t seen being an assistant manager in adult football as part of my career path. So I could never say never, but it would take a lot to get me off the training pitch and away from spending that time teaching players. It’s what I love doing – at any age group and any level.
DB: What do you enjoy doing outside of football? And was there ever a career you considered, aside from playing the beautiful game?
WC: Oh dear, I don’t get any time outside of football Dave! [*laughs*]
I enjoy being with my family. I have two young boys, and I love spending time with them. They’re my release from football.
With regards to a career outside of football, I wouldn’t have a clue what else to do! It’s been my life since I was 15, and had been all I ever dreamt of doing as a little lad kicking around in Northern Ireland. I feel privileged and proud to have made a career in the game, but I never had any other occupation in my head, and still don’t.
Thank you to Wayne for his superb insights into a fascinating life in football. Best of luck to Wayne and everyone at Truro City for the rest of the season.
All images are accredited in the ‘Description’ section for the photos.
It was no surprise when Carl Piergianni was named Boston United’s Player of the Year at the end of the last campaign, and it was a given that his face yet again adorned the National League North’s ‘Team of the Year’. A tough, talented and combative force at the heart of ‘The Pilgrims’ defence, Piergianni is as articulate, measured and likeable off the pitch as he is solid and skilful on it.
We discuss everything from Carl’s early memories as a Peterborough United fan, to learning the ropes in the Northern Premier League with Spalding United, a brief appearance for the first-team of his boyhood heroes, the experience of relegation at Corby Town…and much more. With Boston pushing for promotion again this season, there’s no better time to hear from one of the division’s hottest prospects.
DB: You’re a Peterborough lad, and spent your youth career with the POSH. What are your memories of supporting the POSH growing up, and what do you remember about being a young player at the club?
CP: I have really good memories of supporting the club as a youngster. One of the first games I remember going to was when Peterborough played Darlington at Wembley in the playoff final [in 2000]. They won 1-0 and Andy Clarke scored the winner and that was one of many great memories of being a Peterborough fan growing up.
Being a youth team player at Peterborough United was great as well. To be named Captain during that time was a great honour and then to get offered a pro contract – at my hometown club – was fantastic. It was exactly what I’d always dreamt of.
DB: Despite coming through the ranks at London Road, your first taste of senior football came 20 miles north at Lincolnshire club Spalding United. Were you keen on heading out on loan to play mens football? And was it tough to adapt to the physicality of the Northern Premier League, as a young player?
CP: I was very keen to go out on loan, personally. The advice I’d give to any young player now is that it’s vital to go out and get experience of playing in mens football, as early as possible.
Doing so made me the player I am today. I became a lot stronger, a lot more physical – so I definitely recommend going out and playing first-team games, rather than sitting on the bench or player under-21 matches.
I enjoyed the toughness of the NPL. I’m quite a physical player and don’t mind getting stuck in. It was important to learn how to use my body in those kinds of games, and also to adapt to a game which actually meant something.
When you play in reserve games, obviously you want to win, but it doesn’t really mean anything. However, when you go into a club like Spalding and it’s a proper first-team game, the 3 points are vital and the team were trying to survive relegation [from the NPL Division One South]. You quickly learnt that both performances and results really meant something.
DB: In 2010 you had your first taste of the Football League back at Peterborough, but it was just a single game. What are your memories of that sub appearance against Rochdale? And do you feel you deserved more first-team opportunities at London Road?
CP: At the time, I don’t think I was ready to be starting games for Peterborough. I wasn’t quite good enough at the time, and I was only a young lad – so I don’t hold a grudge against anybody at the club. There were much better players there than I was at that point. Peterborough were challenging to try and get up into the Championship, so it was difficult for me to get a game.
With a debut, people always say ‘it’ll happen when you least expect it’. And I remember just being sat on the bench, and [then manager] Gary Johnson suddenly just told me I was going on. So I was suddenly just standing on the sideline, my knees shaking, and just waiting to go on!
DB: You joined Altrincham on loan later that season, in early 2011. The club’s awful start to that season meant they ended up relegated from the Conference Premier, but you were a regular fixture in the side, as results improved. So was Alty an experience you enjoyed or not?
CP: Very much so. Altrincham’s a great club. As you said, they had such a bad start to the year that it was hard for them to claw their way back up the table. There was a big gap of points between them and safety at one point, but during the time I was there Alty won a fair percentage of the games we were involved in, so it was actually a period I really enjoyed.
Credit to Altrincham, they’re back in the National League now and as with Spalding, I felt it was a club which did a lot to help develop my career. The players there were a very close, tight-knit group. Robbie Williams at the back, Sean Densmore (who’s now Alty captain) at full-back, and Damien Reeves – they were really good players, and everyone there ensured I loved my time at Altrincham. There were no cliques in the changing room, which was great – everyone at the club just got along really well.
DB: Aged 19, you moved to my local club – Stockport County! You played in almost every game that season, as the club stabilized themselves in the Conference Premier. But you had three different gaffers in that one season – Dietmar Hamann, Willie McStay and Jim Gannon. How did they all compare?
CP: That was an interesting experience. Dietmar Hamann and Jim Gannon were polar opposites. Willie was the assistant under Didi Hamann, so he was familiar to us already, and his management style was similar to Didi’s.
Didi had a more relaxed approach than Jim Gannon did. He’d change the team a lot, go with different tactical approaches and was very keen on rotating the squad. He was a lot more laid-back in training and gave the players free-reign to play as they wanted to. Jim was at the opposite end of the spectrum. He knew exactly what tactics he wanted to employ in every part of the game, and stuck to a certain way of playing. So, two deeply contrasting managers!
DB: At County, you scored your first league goals in senior football, getting four in total. What do you remember about your first two, both scored in an exciting 3-3 home draw against Hayes and Yeading United.
CP: I just had a bit of luck and managed to score two! (*Laughs*). The first one just came to my feet and I slotted it in. As for the second, I just remember being completely surprised after scoring again! Sadly I didn’t have a celebration planned, I think I just raised a finger into the air and ran off.
DB: You moved to Corby Town in October 2012 after just over 12 months at Stockport. You helped the side to some excellent results in that early period, and scored 4 goals in your first 5 games! Why do you think you fit into that side so well? And what caused your sudden goal rush?
CP: I always thought I was a threat from set-pieces, and having moved down a league, where the defensive marking wasn’t always as good, I found it a bit easier to get goals than I did in the Conference Prem.
I also had the benefit of a giant centre-half next to me in Paul Malone, so their biggest player would always be marking him and it’d give me a chance to go up against someone a bit smaller! I managed to get on the end of balls quite a lot, and luckily a few of them went in.
DB: Corby were extremely unlucky to be relegated that season, going down on Goal Difference – and just by a solitary goal – below Histon. As a player, how do you cope with that kind of a setback? And did the club’s drop to the Southern Premier League influence your decision to leave?
CP: That was a really tough time for me personally, and for everyone at Corby Town. I’d really enjoyed being at Stockport, and I was sad to have to leave the club. I chose Corby because I’d moved back home and wanted a local club, to try and steady myself again.
That season, I thought all along that Corby would comfortably avoid the drop. We had an okay squad, and I certainly thought we were good enough to compete in the division. We played some good football at times and looked like we were going to avoid the drop, but unluckily went down by such fine margins. All we needed was a point in any of the games that we lost, which was tough to take.
Once the club went down, I made the decision that I wanted to play in the Conference North (or higher) in the following season. As soon as I spoke to the people at Boston United, I knew that joining them was the right move for my career.
DB: In May 2013, you headed to York Street, home of your current club, Boston United. In that first season, the club finished 6th in the Conference North, and you were part of a formidable defensive unit, alongside the likes of Scott Garner, Conor Marshall and Netan Sansara. What were those guys like to play alongside?
CP: It was interesting, because when I signed for Boston I was the only centre-half at the time, and then the gaffer told me he was bringing in Scott, who’d been captain at Cambridge United the year before. Playing alongside Garns* [*Scott Garner] was great, and he’s challenged me and brought my game on a hell of a lot. I’ve really enjoyed playing alongside him, and the other lads you’ve mentioned.
DB: Going back to the beginning of that season, your competitive debut for The Pilgrims was in a 4-1 win away at Edgeley Park, home of your former employers Stockport County. Is it extra sweet to beat one of your old clubs, or is it no different to any other 3 points?
CP: There’s always something extra there when you play an old club. You want to try and show that club what they’re missing! The main thing is always getting the win, but personally it was really special to do that at Edgeley Park.
DB: Last season Boston improved on that 6th placed finish, ending the season in 3rd place – before the narrowest of play-off losses to Chorley. The Pilgrims have been a little inconsistent so far this season, but do you feel this squad has the quality for another play-off finish…or maybe more?
CP: Definitely. I think we’ll achieve at least a play-off spot this year. We’ve been a bit hit and miss at times, but the quality across this group of players is good enough to be up there. It’s about getting a sustained run of form. We’d gone five games unbeaten – with four wins in there – before the North Ferriby game [a 4-3 loss on 7th November]. But when you have those frustrating results, you need to bounce back. That’s absolutely vital if we want to finish in the play-offs.
DB: Absolutely. And alongside yourself, who would you say are the main danger men for Boston. Who should we all be watching out for?
CP: In terms of goals, you can’t look past Dayle Southwell. He’s already on 12 for the season. But he’s only one of the really good strikers here. Mark Jones is so hardworking up top, and he’s something of an unsung hero for us. We’re certainly not short of options in attack.
From set-pieces, me and Scott Garner chip in with quite a few goals, so I think as a side, we always pose a threat – whoever we’re up against!
DB: You’ve made it into the Conference North/National League North ‘Team of the Year’ two years running, and at 23, you still have a long career ahead of you. Are you looking to stay with Boston in the long-term, or is the aim to keep performing well and hopefully interest a Football League side.
CP: I always hope that one day a Football League side will be interested in me. But Boston have treated me so well, and I’ve always had good dealings with everyone at the club. I couldn’t ever envisage leaving for another club at this level. For me to even consider moving, the interest would have to be from a club at the top end of the National League [Premier], at the very least.
Living here is important for me, as well. I’m close to home, I have work outside of the game and there’s football at a club I really enjoy being a part of. When it comes to Football League interest, though, I don’t think anyone [at this level] would be able to turn it down.
DB: We’ve talked about the National League North. It’s a division with some lovely old grounds and some pretty impressive new stadiums. Is there an away trip you especially enjoy – either for the results you get there, the location or what kind of away support the Pilgrims fans bring?
CP: Stockport’s probably the best away ground I’ve played at. When we played at Edgeley Park on the opening day of this season [a 2-1 defeat for Boston] the atmosphere was electric, and as a player, it’s great to be involved on the field when the ground is like that.
Tamworth is another trip I always enjoy. We always get an excellent away following there, and [The Lamb Ground] is a really tight ground, the fans are right alongside the pitch, and it’s a fixture where that traveling support always makes a lot of noise!
DB: I know from Twitter that you like a bit of Ibiza. So what else do you enjoy away from football, aside from soaking up the sun? And what job you do outside of playing the beautiful game?
CP: I like to travel. And not just to Ibiza! I’ve been around Asia and traveling is always something I’m looking to do come the end of the season. I try and save my money so I can see as much of the world as possible. I always like pre-season but we stay here, which isn’t quite as exotic!
Outside of football, I work for Molson-Coors, the Brewery, as a sales rep. I go into convenience stores and Co-Ops as an account manager for them. And it keeps the money in that I need, as someone playing football part time.
Aside from all that, I like the gym – though that’s also a necessity when you’re playing football – and like everyone, I enjoy a bit of golf in the summer!
Thanks to Carl, and best of luck to him and everyone at Boston United for the rest of the season. You can find the Pilgrims defensive rock on Twitter @CarlPidge.
Under The League is happy to publish the following statement from Bath City Football Club regarding our interview on the site with Kurtis Guthrie. Read the rest of this entry
Right now, Kurtis Guthrie is the toast of The New Lawn. With five goals already this campaign, the Jersey-born forward is skilful, powerful and regularly contributing vital goals for the current leaders of the National League. Having begun his career at Jersey club St. Clement, 22-year-old Guthrie has experienced time in the Football League with Accrington Stanley, promotion from the Conference South with Welling United, and last season helped Forest Green Rovers to the highest finish in their 126 year existence. And this time, they’re aiming to go even further… Read the rest of this entry
It’s no surprise that Darren Williams has made a splash as manager of ‘The Catch’. Now four years into his tenure as Whitby Town boss, the friendly and genuine Teessider has seen it all during more than two decades in the game. In a storied career, Williams has played in the Premier League, every division of the Football League, and earnt his stripes as a veteran defensive rock and acute manager in Non-League football.
Discussing everything from playing in York City’s famous 3-0 triumph over Manchester United, to scoring his first goals for Sunderland, his respect for the hardworking professionals of the Northern Premier League and much more, Darren talks me through his fascinating journey, with honesty and heart. Read the rest of this entry
Dave Burin has been busy for us once again, this time chatting to former Bristol Rovers, Port Vale and Oxford United winger Lewis Haldane. Read the rest of this entry
In another Under the League exclusive, Dave Burin heads to a windswept Liberty Way to chat with Nuneaton Town’s new boss, Kevin Wilson. Honest, warm and with a wonderful eye for detail, Kevin recollects his fascinating career on the field and in the dugout, which has taken him from Stamford Bridge to Bedford Town. Read the rest of this entry
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